﻿WEBVTT

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We pass now to the conference from
Esperanza Macarena Rodenas Perea,

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from the University Pablo Olavi de
Sevilla, who will talk to us about

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Harbours of Kings, individual and
collective dedication of royal sanctuary

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in Lower Egyptian port during the
Greco-Roman period.

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Well, good morning, everyone.

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First of all, thank you for the organizing
committee for giving me the honor of being

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here with such a distinguished public and
also incredible colleagues.

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And so statues of rulers
were a common sight in

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the harbor areas of
Hellenistic and Roman Egypt.

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The focus of this paper
will be to analyze the royal

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statuary found in harbors
in Lower Egyptian ports.

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Oops.

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Finish.

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Okay.

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So the focus of this paper will be to
analyze the royal statuary found in

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harbors in Lower Egyptian ports,
And who were, if we can track them down,

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its dedicators.

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By analyzing the collective and individual
people involved in the dedication of royal

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and imperial statues in ports at the
Egyptian Delta, this paper will examine

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possible continuities and transformations,
the motivations and meanings behind such

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actions, and ultimately how these
initiatives contributed to creating,

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reinforcing, or even rejecting a semantic
landscape of royal and imperial power.

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First, let's take a panoramic
view of ruler statues

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found in Delta harbors
in the Ptolemaic period.

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The most significant example is,
of course, Alexandria.

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The Ptolemies furnished with seal all of
Alexandria by filling it with buildings,

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temples, and
sculptures, becoming the

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admiration of those who
visited back in the day.

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Undoubtedly, all these temples and
buildings, as well as palaces and other

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parts of the city, were filled with images
of the rulers.

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In the area surrounding the old Pharaoh's
Island, over there, six colossal statues

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of the Ptolemies dressed in Egyptian
fashion were found, which, for a sandwich,

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it could be a sign of a temple dedicated
to the kings located within the island.

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The templar statues will be situated in
the most conspicuous place to make sure

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that ships arriving to and departing from
Alexandria will see the statues.

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In addition, a seated
life group made by Amun,

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Ptolemy II, and Arsinoe II
was found within the area.

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A hieroglyphic description located in the
statue group mentions, royal cult

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activities, particularly
images, shemu, of Arsinoe

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to be used in processions
in honor to the queen.

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Separating the western harbor from the
main harbor was the Hephaestus Stadion

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Embankment, so that little
bridge over there, which

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connected Pharaoh's
Island to the rest of the city.

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Right in front of it, a temple dedicated
to Isis, Serapis, Ptolemy IV, and Arsinoe

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as cohabitators of the temple,
which would undoubtedly hold the statues,

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was erected there.

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Still close to the harbor, but a little
bit further inland, we find the

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Alexandrian Serapion, which also contained
statues of the king, and we have found

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actually colossal sphinxes of Ptolemaic
kings.

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All these statues were characterized by
being dressed in Egyptian fashion,

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but with Greek hairstyle, being of high
quality, and made of granite.

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Aside from Alexandria,
colossal statues of the

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Ptolemies have been
found in its surroundings.

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At Hadra, an eastern inland suburb of
Alexandria, a colossal granite dyad,

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perhaps, of Ptolemy XII, a sosiris,
and Isis, was also found there.

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Statues were also found in the westernmost
part of the delta, at Thonis Heracleion,

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a harbor city really close to
Canopus, where two colossal

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statues of a Ptolemaic king
and queen have been found.

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Canopus itself was a site of an important
call dedicated to the Ptolemies,

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and both temples and
statues of the rulers were found

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here in a similar style to
its Alexandrian counterparts.

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Statues of life-sized and colossal statues
in Greek and Egyptian fashion,

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made in granite, quarsite, and limestone,
of medium-low quality, were found at

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Canopus, though their exact location is
unknown.

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Stanwy considers that they could have all
served as entry landmarks of native

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temples dedicated to Osiris, Amun, as well
as objects of worship within royal temples.

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To illustrate this, the Canopus decree
specifies that priests gather in the

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temple of the living Ptolemy III and
Wernicke II, located in the city.

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This decree deals with the dedication and
procession of statues in temples of

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different ranks
throughout Egypt, so it is

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likely that this also
took place at Canopus.

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Last but not least, a temple was dedicated
to Arsinoe II, Arsinoe Aphrodite,

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at Cape Sephiron, a promontory near
Canopus.

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Within the temple, a statue of metal of
the queen was apparently suspended on air,

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according to Pliny, and Arsinoe Aphrodite
soon became an apotropaic deity of

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sailors, who would pay worship to the
queen in exchange for safe travels at sea.

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Statues have also been found in the rest
of Delta Harbor cities, though we cannot

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know for sure if they were located within
the harbors themselves.

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These statues are of high quality, of a
smaller size, and made entirely of granite.

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None of them include
Greek features, as opposed

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to the statues found at
Canopus at Alexandria.

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The most significant finds are three
statues from Tannis, a river town close to

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Pelusium, Egypt's eastern border,
where Ptolemy IV, after the Battle of

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Raphia, dedicated a temple to Mut,
Khonsu, and the divine couples from

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Ptolemy II to Ptolemy IV, as cohabitors of
the temple.

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And also, an early temple
treasure hoard from Tuchel Karamus

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also included statues of
bronze and gold of the kings.

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Ptolemaic evidence is a little bit
frustrating regarding this matter,

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because unlike in Roman times,
from which many statue bases have been

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preserved bearing inscriptions with
information about the dedicators,

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we have very few examples from the
Ptolemaic period, making it difficult to

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determine with certainty who was responsible
for dedicating statues in harbor areas.

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However, given the accounts that
explicitly state that the dedications of

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certain temples and statues were founded
by the royal family itself, it is

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reasonable to assume
that a large portion of these

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statues were commissioned
by royal initiative.

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Temples such as those of Atannis,
dedicated to the Ptolemies by Ptolemy IV,

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or the Serapion, commissioned by Ptolemy
III, were royal initiatives.

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But of course, it is difficult to claim
for certain that all those statues founded

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within these temples had been dedicated by
the Ptolemies.

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Given that literary sources, though,
mention that Ptolemy II ordered the

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construction of temples and statues of his
parents, and for his sister-wife,

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Arsinoe II, when she was deified,
it is highly likely that a large portion

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of the statues in the Alexandrian
entourage were commissioned by the kings

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themselves, who maybe
they did not have the need to

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include a dedication stating
that they were the dedicators.

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This was not only limited to Alexandria,
but also elsewhere in the Delta.

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There are perhaps two cases.

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Positippus of Pella, a Greek poet from the
early 3rd century BCE, wrote an epigram

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about the supreme
commander of Ptolemies II's

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Alexandrian fleet, the
Nauarch Callicrates of Samos.

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Callicrates was a figure very close to the
royal family.

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In fact, not only did he dedicate temples
to the Ptolemies both inside and outside

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Egypt, but he was also responsible for
founding the temple of Arsinoe Aphrodite

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at Cape Cephiron in Alexandria,
and also became the first eponymous priest

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of the dynastic call dedicated to
Alexander and the Theoria del Foy.

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This temple was dedicated, as I said,
to sailors, but also maidens, and as

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Spliny the Elder wrote
sometime later, it might

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have contained a metal
statue suspended in the air.

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Positippus does not mention any statue in
his epigrams, but we know that Callicrates

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dedicated the statues in honor of the
Ptolemies in other cities, both outside Egypt.

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So it will not be unreasonable to consider
that maybe this was his work too.

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However, Spliny the Elder knows that the
architect Timochares, by the orders of

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Ptolemy II, began vaulting the temple
ceiling to ensure that the statue appeared

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to be suspended in mid-air,
but that this project was

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interrupted by the deaths of
both the king and the architect.

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So perhaps this initial order to erect the
statue came from Ptolemy II rather than

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Callicrates, or perhaps it was a mix of
both intentions.

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There's another example at Tabenen,
really close to Sois, another Egyptian

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port in the Middle East, in the Delta,
where Synerges, a person, an official

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related to the royal family Aristonikos,
dedicated a statue of Amun and himself at

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the temple in order so
as to, according to some

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scholars, to glorify
the Ptolemaic dynasty.

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But we don't know if only he erected
statues of Amun and himself, but also when

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he tried to glorify the
Ptolemaic dynasty, he also

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may have included the
statues of the Ptolemies.

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We cannot know.

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But otherwise, we do not know who
commissioned the rest of the statues.

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The idea that Hellenistic statues in the
Alexandrian area were the responsibility

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of the king or only the Hellenized elite
as opposed to a purely Egyptian statue,

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perhaps commissioned by an Egyptian elite
from the Pelusian branch, strikes me as a

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little bit problematic because
the Greco-Egyptian artisans

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worked together and
combined both styles perfectly.

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And the distinction between purely Greek
and Egyptian elites in the Ptolemaic

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dynasty, in the Ptolemaic period,
is artificial.

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However, it might not be fair-fetched to
think that at least in the case of those

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Egyptian-style statues dedicated to the
worship of a traditional deity or to the

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Ptolemies in Egyptian temples,
the priests could have participated in the

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dedication of statues, as stated in the
Canopus Decree.

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The same phenomenon continued and even
intensified during the Roman period.

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We also find a great many imperial statues
from Alexandria in the Egyptianizing

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style, or classical style, but their
original locations are unknown.

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Most are vast, heads have figures,
some larger than size, some colossal,

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and some are reworking of Ptolemaic
portraits.

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Within the great harbor, the Caesarean
Sebastion of Alexandria was built close to

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the shore, only a few blocks from where
the temples of Isis, Serapis, Ptolemy IV,

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and Arsinoe used to stand.

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The Sebastion was dedicated to Caesar
Epipaterius, and there is a whole debate

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on the origin, who was the Caesar,
if Julius Caesar or Augustus, as a

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protector of navigation,
assuming roles similar

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to those previously held
by Arsinoe Aphrodite.

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Philo of Alexandria describes how the
Sebastion was a huge complex filled with

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statues, and indeed many
imperial statues have been

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found in the area between
the Caesarean and Cape Locius.

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These statues were dressed in Roman attire,
either with the toga or the Roman cuiras.

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However, a statue found underwater,
this one over there, near the Caesarean

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with an emes, was
identified by Cleopatra VII by

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some authors, but also as
Augustus by other authors.

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So if it was the case of an
statue of Augustus, we will also

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find Egyptianizing statues of
Roman emperors at this area.

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Within Alexandrian harbors,
columns were found and

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an explanate where the
anti-Rodos island used to be.

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So you cannot see in the map, but it's
like right up here.

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The palace quarter.

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And so the anti-Rodos
island was located

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between the Poesidian
Peninsula and Cape Locius.

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And according to Strabo,
this island had during

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the Ptolemaic period
royal palaces and harbors.

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So we can presume that Ptolemaic statues
will have also been erected there.

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For the Roman period, seven red granite
columns, which would have, assumedly,

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supported this imperial
status, dedicated

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to Commodus and
Caracalla, were found here.

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And we know who were the dedicators.

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But unfortunately, we
cannot know for sure, again, if

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these statues were located
within the shore of the island.

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Also preserved in Alexandria is the famous
column of Diocletian, which marked the

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spot where the Serapion is believed to
have stood.

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And close to that column, remains of a
seven-meter tall Porphyria statue was

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found, which could have been
probably of the emperor, given

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the importance that Porphyria
had for imperial statuary.

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The source, however, that most explicitly
attests to the custom of placing statues

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at the countries, entrances
and harbors, is Papyrus London,

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1912, which preserves Claudius'
letter to the Alexandrians.

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Claudius allows the placement of the
tetrapolon, quadrigar, likely of his own

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person, at the country's entry points,
the northeastern border, Taposiris,

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sorry, the northwestern border,
Taposiris, the northeastern border,

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Pelusium, and the main point of entry,
Via Alexandria, Pharos, where we saw that

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a significant number of Ptolemaic statues
have survived.

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Claudius' letter does not again specify
whether those quadrigari were driven by

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the emperor himself, but I believe this is
very likely, since the letter is part of a

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whole series of dedications and statuary
honors dedicated to the emperor.

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Claudius' letter also mentions a temple to
Augustus at Canopus, where really small

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imperial statues made of
local materials have been

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found, along with a head
attributed to Vespasian.

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Finally, a significant number of
inscriptions, most likely base statues

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dedicated by soldiers,
come from Nicopolis,

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the military camp
situated close to Alexandria.

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These inscriptions were
dedicated to Antoninus Pius,

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Marcus Aurelius, Commodus,
Caracalla, among others.

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But it's true that there
are inscriptions, so we

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don't know for sure if
they were statue bases.

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Imperial statues of uncertain origin have
been found scattered throughout the delta,

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some in Sois, Mendes, and the temple of
Amun in Tannis.

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Almost all these statues lack
Egyptianizing features, rather they

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reflect a classic Hellenistic style,
except for a statue of Caracalla in the

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pharaonic style, found at the temple of
Benebeget in Mendes.

00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:17.578
Unfortunately, again,
we cannot know for sure if

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these statues were located
within the Herber area.

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The accounts from the Roman period
regarding the types of people who

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commissioned imperialist statues are a
little bit more revealing.

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First, we have the emperor, even though if
Claudius is allowing his statues,

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or his quadrigae, to be displayed at the
entrance of the country, and this was

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probably an initiative that came from the
Alexandrian elite, he is allowing this

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statue, this position, and this play,
to happen.

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But also we find high-ranking Roman
officials.

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One of the bases is that the angry
anti-Rodos island was dedicated to

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Commodus by the prefect, but the name of
the emperor appears erased.

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And seeing how the prefect always saw
dedicated monuments, columns of the

00:15:00.091 --> 00:15:04.690
Sebastian and Alexandria, perhaps some of
those imperial statues were also his doing.

00:15:05.390 --> 00:15:08.370
But then we find the Roman and Alexandrian
elite.

00:15:08.590 --> 00:15:10.849
Claudius later states that
he permits the construction

00:15:10.850 --> 00:15:12.810
of quadrigae along
the country's entrances.

00:15:12.970 --> 00:15:15.592
But this must be understood
that this stemmed from

00:15:15.593 --> 00:15:17.673
an initiative that came from
the Alexandrian embassy.

00:15:18.190 --> 00:15:20.502
In addition, the columns
found at anti-Rodos island

00:15:20.503 --> 00:15:22.910
were dedicated by the
Romans and the Alexandrians.

00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:24.870
Romaioi cae Alexandreis.

00:15:25.130 --> 00:15:28.410
According to the editors of the
Supplementum, this group would have not

00:15:28.411 --> 00:15:32.590
been composed of Roman citizens on the one
hand, and Alexandrian citizens on the

00:15:32.591 --> 00:15:35.650
other, but rather of all the Roman
citizens living in Alexandria.

00:15:36.030 --> 00:15:38.157
Although they believe that
if such were the case, maybe

00:15:38.158 --> 00:15:42.270
the inscription would have
said, Romaioi oi en Alexandreia.

00:15:42.550 --> 00:15:47.690
If that is the case, it made more sense
that they were distinct groups,

00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:53.610
that they were Alexandrians and Romans,
who received Roman citizenship and were

00:15:53.611 --> 00:15:55.590
seeking to highlight their place of
origin.

00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:59.190
In any case, the dating of these
inscriptions is interesting, since the

00:15:59.191 --> 00:16:03.430
most recent one was dedicated in CE 201,
before the Constituto Antoniniana.

00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:11.230
But the last one was dated to 213, one
year after, the edict had been promoted.

00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:15.390
Roman citizenship would have applied by
then to all free inhabitants of the

00:16:15.391 --> 00:16:17.230
empire, in the case of the second
inscription.

00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:22.190
Therefore, the need to emphasize perhaps
for that last inscription, the status of

00:16:22.191 --> 00:16:25.450
Roman and Alexandrian citizens may
highlight these elites' efforts to

00:16:25.451 --> 00:16:29.250
distinguish themselves from the rest of
the citizens, either because they had

00:16:29.251 --> 00:16:32.590
received citizenship before the edict,
based on other merits, or because the

00:16:32.591 --> 00:16:34.810
edict's implementation had not been
entirely effective.

00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:38.550
Or maybe they were just following the
typical protocol.

00:16:39.630 --> 00:16:45.070
Some of these columns have been
deliberately erased, especially those

00:16:45.071 --> 00:16:49.250
dedicated to Caracalla, which could have
something to do with the massacre that he

00:16:49.251 --> 00:16:51.950
carried out in Alexandria, according to
Herodian.

00:16:52.510 --> 00:16:56.930
We also find the inscriptions dedicated in
Latin by members of the army, veterans,

00:16:57.130 --> 00:17:02.310
centurions, decurions, and soldiers,
in which these dedications are always

00:17:02.311 --> 00:17:06.310
collective, listing the names of all the
soldiers belonging to one specific unit.

00:17:06.550 --> 00:17:10.270
Worth noting was the reference to the
castri signifer, who were the soldiers

00:17:10.271 --> 00:17:13.869
responsible for safeguarding the
imperial's images and the army's insignia.

00:17:14.510 --> 00:17:19.030
And then this one is, maybe you will have
an answer to this one, but one of the

00:17:19.031 --> 00:17:23.630
columns at Tirodo's Island was dedicated
to Caracalla by the Romans, Alexandrians,

00:17:23.750 --> 00:17:29.130
and a group called the Antonine Aioi,
which for the editors of the second might

00:17:29.131 --> 00:17:32.750
have been an association dedicated to the
imperial cult, but we don't know.

00:17:33.290 --> 00:17:38.310
As for private use, which is also a tricky
term in itself, one small statuette,

00:17:38.311 --> 00:17:41.930
made of turquoise, which is a very
Egyptian local material, attributed to

00:17:41.931 --> 00:17:46.590
Tiberius, which is that one over there,
was found at Canopus, which may point

00:17:46.591 --> 00:17:49.099
maybe to a private
local use, or perhaps no,

00:17:49.100 --> 00:17:51.470
and it was the adornment
of a priestly crown.

00:17:51.670 --> 00:17:52.670
So we cannot know.

00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:58.730
So some special, so some results,
some special continuities, of course,

00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:01.670
regarding the location of royal and
imperial statuary can be observed,

00:18:01.850 --> 00:18:05.320
which indicates some spaces
associated to the ruler cult and

00:18:05.321 --> 00:18:07.770
imperial cult were maintained
from one period to the other.

00:18:07.771 --> 00:18:11.030
For instance, the statues of the Ptolemies
and the Roman emperors were erected at

00:18:11.031 --> 00:18:14.450
places surrounding Alexandria and the
Great Harbour, namely Faros Island,

00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:18.330
the Royal Quarter, the Caesarean,
the Serapion, and also Canopus.

00:18:19.110 --> 00:18:22.510
However, some discontinuities and
innovations can be noticeable,

00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:25.650
such as the presence of statues at
Nicopolis and Antirrhodos Island,

00:18:25.810 --> 00:18:27.793
and ultimately, the
concentration of imperial

00:18:27.794 --> 00:18:30.090
statues in the area
surrounding the Sebasteion.

00:18:30.770 --> 00:18:34.910
Perhaps the most symbolic shift is that of
the dedicators, whereas we mostly lack

00:18:34.911 --> 00:18:38.270
evidence on who dedicated the statues of
the Ptolemies in the area surrounding the

00:18:38.271 --> 00:18:42.770
harbours, it is likely that this was done,
at least encouraged, by the royal family

00:18:42.771 --> 00:18:46.370
itself, since we know that they were in
charge of promoting the dynastic cult and

00:18:46.371 --> 00:18:48.270
embellishing Alexandria with its
sculptures.

00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:52.770
For other harbours with strong Egyptian
elements such as temples like Canopus or

00:18:52.771 --> 00:18:56.410
Tannis, maybe priests could have erected
them there with royal collaboration,

00:18:56.710 --> 00:18:57.626
but we cannot know.

00:18:57.650 --> 00:19:02.550
In the Roman period, we see a very diverse
variety in opposition of people dedicating

00:19:02.551 --> 00:19:07.090
statues to the emperor, namely the elite,
soldiers, and maybe private dedications

00:19:07.250 --> 00:19:08.106
and associations.

00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:11.830
This was probably due to the lack of
imperial direct patronage within Egypt,

00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:14.700
but of course, this
is all based on biased

00:19:14.701 --> 00:19:17.030
sources, so any conclusion
would be misleading.

00:19:17.510 --> 00:19:19.539
Some individual initiatives
from the rulers and

00:19:19.540 --> 00:19:22.150
turrets can perhaps be
observed in both periods.

00:19:22.330 --> 00:19:26.590
We saw that Callicrates of Samos dedicated
a temple to Arsinoe at Caesephaeron.

00:19:26.870 --> 00:19:31.770
Maybe Aristonicus also dedicated statues
of the Ptolemies at Tannis, sorry,

00:19:31.890 --> 00:19:32.890
at Ravennaire.

00:19:34.130 --> 00:19:36.827
And for the Roman period,
we find examples of statues

00:19:36.828 --> 00:19:39.790
dedicated by the prefect of
Egypt in areas within harbors.

00:19:39.910 --> 00:19:43.910
This indicates a strong desire to
establish a connection to the ruler or the

00:19:43.911 --> 00:19:45.922
emperor and emphasize
the closeness of an

00:19:45.923 --> 00:19:48.130
individual to them as a
mark of social prestige.

00:19:50.770 --> 00:19:55.330
But we find mostly group and collective
dedications for the Roman periods.

00:19:55.610 --> 00:19:57.279
Like we might expect
that maybe a statue is

00:19:57.280 --> 00:19:59.090
dedicated at Canopus
after the Canopus decree.

00:19:59.430 --> 00:20:03.450
Priests of different Canopic temples may
have dedicated statues to the Ptolemies

00:20:03.451 --> 00:20:05.270
there, but this is speculative,
as I said.

00:20:05.430 --> 00:20:08.490
For the Roman period, most of the
dedications at harbors were collective.

00:20:08.690 --> 00:20:12.410
Elite citizens in Alexandria came together
to dedicate statues on Tirodo's island,

00:20:12.610 --> 00:20:15.130
symbolizing a shared effort to build a
common identity.

00:20:15.650 --> 00:20:19.450
However, the emphasis on their kind of
citizenship, be it Romans and or

00:20:19.451 --> 00:20:22.031
Alexandrian citizens,
serves to stress a sign

00:20:22.032 --> 00:20:24.330
of a statue as opposed
to other social groups.

00:20:24.830 --> 00:20:29.330
Likewise, imperial cults helped to create
a common identity based on vertical and

00:20:29.331 --> 00:20:32.367
horizontal bonds between
soldiers who came together

00:20:32.368 --> 00:20:34.810
to dedicate statues to the
emperor they're commanding.

00:20:35.030 --> 00:20:39.170
Last but not least, some of these imperial
statues were damaged or the name of the

00:20:39.171 --> 00:20:43.810
emperor was erased, which may have served
as a way of expressing opposition or

00:20:43.811 --> 00:20:46.370
anti-imperial sentiments during moments of
civil unrest.

00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:51.510
And I forgot to mention this, but also one
of the colossal statues of the Ptolemies

00:20:51.511 --> 00:20:57.210
found at Thonis-Heracleion, a statue of a
queen depicted as Isis, seems,

00:20:57.370 --> 00:20:59.890
according to Gordio, to have been also
deliberately damaged.

00:21:00.090 --> 00:21:02.950
So it doesn't happen only in the Roman
period.

00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:08.210
In conclusion, I think the location of
these statues within harbors wanted to

00:21:08.211 --> 00:21:11.850
stress the symbolic, ideological,
and religious importance of visibility.

00:21:12.350 --> 00:21:15.210
At harbors, the statues were located at
highly visible places.

00:21:15.730 --> 00:21:19.570
Stanwyck, for example, sees here a
continuity between the Ptolemies and Roman

00:21:19.571 --> 00:21:23.867
emperors when it came
to erecting statues both at

00:21:23.868 --> 00:21:26.850
maritime and inland
borders as well as temples.

00:21:26.990 --> 00:21:30.050
There is a connection, according to him,
between temples and borders.

00:21:30.190 --> 00:21:33.530
For example, if pharaohs and the Ptolemies
were depicted at the entrance of the

00:21:33.531 --> 00:21:38.290
pylons as fierce warriors that managed to
keep chaos at bay, royal and imperial

00:21:38.291 --> 00:21:42.010
statues found at borders would also be an
adaptation of this same motive.

00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:45.640
These statues stressed
the apotropaic and

00:21:45.641 --> 00:21:49.030
protective role of the
ruler no matter the century.

00:21:49.270 --> 00:21:52.092
The presence of the ruler or
the emperor guaranteed safe

00:21:52.093 --> 00:21:54.890
travels to those who wished
to leave or enter the country.

00:21:55.210 --> 00:21:58.275
And ultimately, his image
was a deterrent reminder that

00:21:58.276 --> 00:22:00.890
he is the one to protect
Egypt and to keep it safe.

00:22:01.510 --> 00:22:02.510
Thank you.

00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:13.150
Thank you so much, Esperanza, for your
presentation.

00:22:13.630 --> 00:22:15.210
Any questions?

00:22:15.430 --> 00:22:16.430
Reflections?

00:22:18.730 --> 00:22:20.210
May I?

00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:33.250
Why doubt about Cleopatra's for which is
quite surprising for me.

00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:38.110
Yeah, once the image

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.060
that one over there.

00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:50.340
Yes, I mean, for me, it's clearly
Augustus.

00:22:50.580 --> 00:22:51.940
It's clearly Augustus.

00:22:52.020 --> 00:22:58.240
But there is any reason to propose such a
I don't know.

00:22:58.260 --> 00:23:01.160
It's Ashton the one to propose this
identification.

00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:06.580
But to be sure, I'm not entirely sure why
she proposed that, because I don't think

00:23:06.581 --> 00:23:09.231
we have any statues
except for apparently this

00:23:09.232 --> 00:23:11.420
one of Cleopatra VII
dressed with an emes.

00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:13.250
And if she's one of those,
if she was meant to be

00:23:13.251 --> 00:23:16.340
a queen, she will be
dressed in an Esaiac attire.

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:19.887
Not that so I don't really
understand the criteria

00:23:19.888 --> 00:23:22.700
she followed to say that
she was Cleopatra VII.

00:23:23.260 --> 00:23:26.160
She always she only said this belongs to
Cleopatra VII.

00:23:26.780 --> 00:23:28.000
And I don't remember.

00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:34.440
I will check it that up because I don't
think she gave a very explanation.

00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:40.520
That's a problem actually always with
statues anywhere that the identification

00:23:40.521 --> 00:23:48.080
of individuals tends to be I don't want to
say arbitrary but it depends a lot of like

00:23:48.081 --> 00:23:51.575
artistic criteria that the the
log of the head sometimes

00:23:51.576 --> 00:23:55.960
it's obvious like for
example Hadrian or Augustus.

00:23:56.060 --> 00:23:59.435
But it's a very tricky topic
but you're right in this

00:23:59.436 --> 00:24:02.800
case I think it's obvious that
it could only be Augustus.

00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:04.020
It cannot be Cleopatra.

00:24:04.021 --> 00:24:09.040
It's not like she's doing I think this
maybe also has to do with the idea that

00:24:10.780 --> 00:24:15.160
this historiographical artistic idea that
some people thought that Cleopatra wanted

00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:23.260
to claim a kind of male counterpart so to
speak but to be fair like the only queen

00:24:23.261 --> 00:24:25.307
that did that in pharaonic
Egypt well in Egypt

00:24:25.308 --> 00:24:29.060
in general as long as I'm
aware of is Hatshepsut.

00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:35.100
So I will you're you're completely right
it doesn't make sense no no no because

00:24:35.101 --> 00:24:42.140
because you have exactly the opposite
direction that I was looking for but

00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:50.160
indeed I don't think probably it's not
Cleopatra why Cleopatra but for sure it's

00:24:50.161 --> 00:24:56.080
not an Augustus you don't think it's an
Augustus well for sure in my opinion who

00:24:56.081 --> 00:25:00.860
do you think who do you think why who do
you think who he is is it is it is it

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:07.360
No, but that's very typical.

00:25:07.540 --> 00:25:11.340
You find statues of Augustus as a pharaoh
all across Egypt.

00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.960
My question is, why do you think that it
can't be the first?

00:25:16.340 --> 00:25:23.400
I think, if it were me, it could be maybe
Ptolemy the Caesarian, perhaps,

00:25:23.620 --> 00:25:26.640
a Ptolemaic prince, because he looks
really, really young.

00:25:29.380 --> 00:25:31.080
So maybe Ptolemy the Caesarian.

00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:34.300
It's very, very big.

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:35.196
It's like huge.

00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:36.220
It's very, very big.

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.176
I don't know.

00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:43.940
I'm not an expert, but there's a similar
thing I have to say concerning Tiberius.

00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:52.500
I would say...

00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:54.800
Nermanegios?

00:25:55.460 --> 00:25:56.296
Nermanegios.

00:25:56.320 --> 00:25:56.536
Oh!

00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:56.620
Nermanegios.

00:25:56.621 --> 00:25:57.621
Caligula.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:58.920
Caligula!

00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:02.520
Yeah, it's from Nermanegios.

00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.720
I don't think so.

00:26:03.860 --> 00:26:07.720
Well, I'm here following the criteria of
people who are specialised in...

00:26:07.721 --> 00:26:09.440
My approach is almost historical.

00:26:09.780 --> 00:26:16.460
But sometimes you find statues in Egypt
that apparently belong to some emperors,

00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:20.120
and you find, like, this emperor is this
emperor, and you don't see the emperor.

00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:23.700
Like, there is a famous... well,
not a famous, but there is a statue of a

00:26:23.701 --> 00:26:26.540
man with a...
Oh, I forgot the...

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.520
The bear?

00:26:28.620 --> 00:26:28.976
A bear.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.500
And everyone thinks it's Hadrian because
it has the bear.

00:26:31.580 --> 00:26:33.806
But you see, like, the
character, the physiognomical

00:26:33.807 --> 00:26:37.100
characteristics of the statue,
and it cannot be Hadrian.

00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.520
But there is always this debate that the
way there were innovations, the quality of

00:26:44.521 --> 00:26:49.580
how sculptors tried to replicate the
models from Rome.

00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:52.740
So, yeah, it's a very good point.

00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:53.360
Yeah.

00:26:53.361 --> 00:26:58.780
For example, there is a very famous statue
made of basalt of Germanic...

00:26:58.781 --> 00:27:01.940
well, identified with Germanicus,
with the paludamentum.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.580
And it's very similar to, like,
the...

00:27:07.360 --> 00:27:08.360
the herb.

00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:14.420
Yeah, for example, when there are many...
many authors that will say that a man...

00:27:14.421 --> 00:27:17.158
an emperor with a
bear would be... could be

00:27:17.159 --> 00:27:21.820
Caracalla, Septimius
Severus, Hadrian, so... This one.

00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:23.316
Yeah.

00:27:23.340 --> 00:27:26.800
No, and Caracalla is... you have many
statues of Caracalla dressed as a pharaoh,

00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:27.980
which is interesting.

00:27:28.280 --> 00:27:30.040
And you can see, like, the brow.

00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.980
Like, the brow for me, it's clear that
it's Caracalla.

00:27:33.580 --> 00:27:35.140
He's always angry, as they say.

00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:36.280
He's always angry.

00:27:37.100 --> 00:27:38.600
No, but it's a very good point.

00:27:41.340 --> 00:27:42.340
Very interesting.

00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.400
Very awkward point, so...

00:27:44.401 --> 00:27:46.700
No, no, but I appreciate
it because that's...

00:27:46.701 --> 00:27:48.820
actually, that's one
of the things that I...

00:27:48.821 --> 00:27:51.920
while writing my PhD, I always struggled
with this by saying, okay, this

00:27:51.921 --> 00:27:57.160
identification criteria sometimes is so
different that where it's really the...

00:27:57.800 --> 00:27:59.693
what... what is the
criteria to determine that a

00:27:59.694 --> 00:28:03.240
statue belongs to a
specific emperor, except...

00:28:03.241 --> 00:28:08.440
because, for example, there is a very
famous statue from Karnak of Augustus.

00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:10.500
As an Egyptian.

00:28:10.620 --> 00:28:12.340
As an Egyptian, it's a very famous one.

00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.040
Look, it's a huge, colossal statue at
the... yeah.

00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.900
And everyone says Augustus.

00:28:17.901 --> 00:28:20.660
But there is one author who says that it's
Tiberius, so...

00:28:25.180 --> 00:28:25.836
Interesting.

00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:26.416
Yeah.

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:27.440
All right.

00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:28.740
Some questions?

00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:36.190
Fine.

00:28:36.410 --> 00:28:37.286
Oops.

00:28:37.310 --> 00:28:38.310
Thank you.

00:28:39.290 --> 00:28:39.986
You?

00:28:40.010 --> 00:28:41.010
Yeah.

00:28:45.790 --> 00:28:46.406
All right.

00:28:46.430 --> 00:28:47.630
Hopefully, I have convinced...

00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:49.010
Hopefully, I have convinced him.

00:28:49.150 --> 00:28:50.150
Very good.